Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please?

by 1950democrat, Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:13:41 PM EST

Hm, this article may explain why some people would jump ON a sinking ship -- especially if their own constituents are locked into it already. Some SD are worried about Hillary coming out with the popular vote while Obama has some lead in delegates.

“Party leaders then would face a wrenching choice: Steer the nomination to a fading Obama, even as signs suggested Clinton could be the stronger candidate in November; or go with the surging Clinton and risk infuriating Obama’s supporters, especially blacks, the Democratic Party’s most loyal base.

Some anxious Democrats  want party elders to step in now to generate more “superdelegate” support for Obama, effectively choking off Clinton’s hopes before she can bolster them further."
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/ap_on_el_pr /democrats_endgame

The article seems to focus on leaders concerned about winning the White House in November after possibly offending Obama's supporters. But SDs whose constituents are strong for Obama, might have even more reason to worry, and prefer to save their own, er, seats even if it means the Dems lose the White House.

For those, a quick jump toward Obama now, might save them some hard feelings later, if at the last minute they switch to the more electable candidate, Hillary.

As for the national leaders worried about offending "Obama’s supporters, especially blacks, the Democratic Party’s most loyal base" -- maybe they'd better start worrying about offending Hillary's supporters, and Florida and Michigan.




Tags: Hillary, popular vote, delegates, SD, Superdelegate (all tags)

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Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

SDs are going to vote in their own interests as they see them -- which, along with their undemocratic status in a party which calls itself Democratic, is the greaest fault with the SD system.

Hopefully they'll be done away with by 2012.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:18:17 PM EST

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (2.00 / 2)

If we do away with the Supers, then we'd have to tighten up on crossover voting, caucus procedures, etc. As it is, the states can fool around and trust the Supers to correct imbalances caused by gaming the loose system.

Also, there needs to be some tie-breaking body; using any sort of raw numbers (delegtes or popular vote) would lead to recount lawsuits in a close contest.

With nearly 800 Supers, each subject to different influences, we may have a pretty balanced situation. I just worry about DNC insider intrigue. Maybe too many of the Supers come from DNC people; maybe more should be RETIRED successful Governors and Congresspeople, no longer subject to pressure -- and able to remember 1972.


by 1950democrat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (2.00 / 1)

"If we do away with the Supers, then we'd have to tighten up on crossover voting, caucus procedures, etc."

Independents should be invited to participate, but not GOP trouble makers.

And the primary/delegate system should be replaced by a national primary with IRV and the nominee chosen by popular vote. It's a farce that the Democratic Party isn't even democratic.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (2.00 / 1)

A national primary that handled Dem and GOP on the same ballot same day, might have several advantages. A Republican couldn't crossover except by losing his chance to vote in his own primary (might not matter with a GOP incumbent). Primary nationwide, no caucuses. Get it all over early. No worry about someone voting in two different states. Etc.


by 1950democrat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

Democrats don't need to tie their nominating process to that of the GOP.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:52:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

No.  That gives an incredible advantage to the candidate who has amassed the greatest warchest.  Candidates such as Edwards would have even less of a chance under that system than they do now.


by rfahey22 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

It's about real democracy in the Democratic Party; not about what's best for Edwards.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about States w/out reg by Party? (none / 0)




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

That article is true in the sense that if Clinton wins NC and OR, Obama is going to look weak.  I'm willing to take bets on Obama winning those states though.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:31:11 PM EST

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

Gee. Pretty safe bet. You giving points? I'll take Clinton with 20 in NC? ... Maybe.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

That's my point.  The article referenced assumes that Clinton wins OR and NC.  I'm suspecting that few people will take up my bet.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

I was being supportive with humor. Sorry. You're right of course.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

Nah it's cool.  I figured that was likely what you meant, but I was hoping to win a little extra cash here first ;)


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:58:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (2.00 / 1)

Surging Clinton? Seriously?

I would say that the last time we saw a Clinton surge was when she won NH.


by ScottEmerson on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:55:41 PM EST

Great point! TRULY great point. (none / 0)

I hadn't thought about this recently. We've redefined surge to mean "Hillary wins a state by 10's of points less than she was expected to." or "Hillary barely wins the state on votes but ties or loses on delegates." Hillary's "surges" are more like coming up for a quick breath of air just above the surface before disappearing under the water again.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Barring a complete meltdown by Obama, (none / 0)

 Clinton has almost no chance of surpassing his number of pledged delegates, even if she scores upset wins in states such as Oregon, which votes May 20. But such victories would encourage her to keep criticizing Obama -- her only hope for the nomination -- and thus heighten doubts about Obama's ability to defeat Republican Sen. John McCain in the http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/ap_o n_el_pr/democrats_endgame


Ida B. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.-Mark Twain
by Ida B on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:11:52 PM EST

Is this the AP story you used (none / 0)


Ida B. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.-Mark Twain
by Ida B on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:12:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this the AP story you used (none / 0)

The link was in my post. Here it is again:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/ap_on_el_pr /democrats_endgame

by 1950democrat on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:40:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't SDs vote 'present'? Pretty please? (none / 0)

Another Clinton vs an old man?  Wait no Ross- and this is the Clinton nobody liked.  Way too much dirt to be thrown.  I have to say I would work hard for either Dem, but don't relish the dirt that would be thrown at her.  Rove is much better at evil than any Dem.


daninpa
by daninpa on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:43:17 PM EST


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