Why BO uses bad means toward good ends

I'm beginning to see Obama as sort of deluded. Perhaps his intentions are good; he was raised among nice people (white guilt liberals, at least his grandfather).

But somehow Obama got the idea that the only way to be realistic and win is to do dirty Chicago style backroom stuff -- like getting ALL your opponents thrown off the ballot (see Alice Palmer story at http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story

Now Obama is gaming the system in other ways, rather than letting the voters decide by making an honest up-front case to the voters on the issues. That is, Obama will do anything to win. It's like he thinks his personality will be so great for the world that the end justifies any and all means. See quotes below....

Just as there's a disconnect between his speeches and his actions, there's a disconnect between his ends and his means.

www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=a74fc a23-f6ac-4736-9c78-f4163d4f25c7&p=10
In the world as we would like it to be, every election should have more than one contestant. In the world as it is, especially in Chicago, you challenge your opponents' signatures and knock them off the ballot.
When[the journalist] asked Ron Davis if Obama is too idealistic, he laughed. "Barack knows how to play the game!" he told me.
....
" [Obama] personally believes the principles he's espousing. Now, do I also believe he's ambitious and will do whatever it takes to win? Yes."

People who approve of this, don't seem to understand there is a middle ground, where you fight honestly, doing your homework to make good solutions and then presenting them well to the voters. Do this basic job well enough -- and you don't NEED dirty Chicago tactics.



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Same as what we did when Nader and (2.00 / 0)

the Republican-backed Green candidate in Pennsylvania falsified signatures.


by bobdoleisevil on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:47:34 PM EST

They had faked signatures. (none / 0)

His rivals, including Mrs. Palmer, came up short when the signatures were re-examined.  The article you cite quotes Senator Obama as having mused about whether or not they should remain on the ballot illegally in the interests of fairness, once he discovered the ballot problems.

He decided to challenge the signatures, and with a day's worth of trouble, the clerks threw out enough signatures to disqualify Mrs. Palmer and the other two minor candidates.

That's not "do whatever it takes to win."  That's following the rules.  Should he have left it alone, although she didn't have enough legitimate signatures to qualify?

Would Senator Clinton have let it slide?  I hope not.


by McNasty on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:51:11 PM EST

Were Obama's signatures held to same standard? (none / 0)

The signatures were gathered against a list of registered voters current in, iirc, 1995. Early in Jan of 1996, just after a new list had been issued, Obama challenged the signatures against the new list.

Does anyone know whether Obama's own signatures were held to the same standard?

As to forgery, one opponent thought his collectorws might have 'round-tabled' him, but Palmer made no such admission.


by 1950democrat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 12:37:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

dishonorable (none / 0)

I can't imagine HIllary or Bill doing anything so nasty and dishonorable as what Obama did to Palmer (a popular and effective incumbent in a safe seat).

There seems to be a philosophical gap here, which may be dealt with better in a other diary. I'll just mention, that your value judgement is not shared by the TNR journalist Lizza or Obama's associate he quotes, or by the Tribune journalists who headed this part of the profile "Showing his bare knuckles
In first campaign, Obama revealed hard-edged, uncompromising side in eliminating party rivals", at http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story


by 1950democrat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 01:25:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I just read that article (2.00 / 2)

and I got the impression that he will align himself with anyone, as long as he wins.

Why would he seek out the Wright church?  After all, Wright news stories keep coming up, like this one related by the blog Lavender Liberal:

Jeremiah Wright on Italians again: Now we're "garlic noses"

As a woman, I know how the c-word rings in my ear. As a lesbian, I know how "dyke" sounds when it's thrown at me as a slur.

But I never thought, in this day and age, I would feel the sting of anti-Italian hate. That should have died out with my grandparents' generation -- but it appears that the Wrong Mr. Wright has been keeping that brand of discrimination alive and well, thankyouverymuch.

*

"(Jesus') enemies had their opinion about Him," Wright wrote in a eulogy of the late scholar Asa Hilliard in the November/December 2007 issue. "The Italians for the most part looked down their garlic noses at the Galileans.

"From the circumstances surrounding Jesus' birth (in a barn in a township that was under the Apartheid Roman government that said his daddy had to be in), up to and including the circumstances surrounding Jesus' death on a cross, a Roman cross, public lynching Italian style. ..." Wright wrote.

I wonder if Obama will talk about this sermon when he campaigns in the Italian sections of Pittsburgh.

Ryan Lizza is a good, liberal writer.  He's the one who exposed former Sen. George Allen as a bigot.  I don't even mind someone who plays hard politics -- you need hardness as a President.  But aligning oneself with the likes of Wright, and Rev. Meeks really tells me something.

I felt after reading the article that Obama really isn't very religious, and just adopted these preachers for their political following.  I don't read too much into that -- except why would he choose these two particular -- I want to say hate-mongers but I think they're delusional more than anything.


by katmandu1 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:55:23 PM EST

choosing Wright's 'buppie' church (2.00 / 1)

In one of the profiles, it was mentioned that Obama was shopping for a Black church to promote his 'community organizing'. But instead of a church that would have given him better 'cred', he chose Wright's more 'buppie' (Black yuppie) church, because Wright's 'African theology' sincerely appealed to him (he'd read some of WRight's sermons while in law school, tho presumably not the most quotable ones).

For a look at the emotional background for such an appeal, see http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama -throws-his-own-living-grannie.html

I try not to get carried away by narrative, but there may be a pattern here of noble fatherless Campbellian hero -- but with an odd tragic flaw (in addition to the trope hubris). He has come a long way with posing and manipulation -- then gets brought down because he felt and keeps real loyalty toward Wright.

(I wonder how long Wright will stand for being called a crazy uncle and sent out of the country ala SNL. Maybe the story will have a happy ending for Michelle, who didn't want to move their children to the White House in the first place.)


by 1950democrat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 01:45:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's Real Religious Roots (2.00 / 1)

I wanted to cite something I mentioned earlier about Obama becoming a church member because it was helpful in politics.

From Wright and others, Obama learned that part of his problem as an organizer was that he was trying to build a confederation of churches but wasn't showing up in the pews on Sunday. When pastors asked him the inevitable questions about his own spiritual life, Obama would duck them uncomfortably. A Reverend Philips put the problem to him squarely when he learned that Obama didn't attend services. "It might help your mission if you had a church home," he told Obama. "It doesn't matter where, really. What you're asking from pastors requires us to set aside some of our more priestly concerns in favor of prophesy. That requires a good deal of faith on our part. It makes us want to know just where you're getting yours from."

After many lectures like this, Obama decided to take a second look at Wright's church. Older pastors warned him that Trinity was for "Buppies"--black urban professionals--and didn't have enough street cred. But Wright was a former Muslim and black nationalist who had studied at Howard and Chicago, and Trinity's guiding principles--what the church calls the "Black Value System"--included a "Disavowal of the Pursuit of Middleclassness.'"

The crosscurrents appealed to Obama. He came to believe that the church could not only compensate for the limitations of Alinsky-style organizing but could help answer the nagging identity problem he had come to Chicago to solve. "It was a powerful program, this cultural community," he wrote, "one more pliant than simple nationalism, more sustaining than my own brand of organizing."

As a result, over the years, Wright became not only Obama's pastor, but his mentor.

http://www.pickensdemocrats.org/info/The Agitator_070319.htm

I trust Lizza to get this right, and it actually relieves me, because I'm a secularist (though one who has studied theology quite a bit) and it worried me that Obama bought into too much of the hocus pocus -- which has been a real liability to Bush.

But why Wright?  There are lots of churches from which to choose in Chicago.  And Wright has a divisive message.

Well, who knows.


by katmandu1 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:05:39 PM EST

Re: Why BO uses bad means toward good ends (none / 0)

Just so I have your logic straight here, 4 of Obama's primary opponents to the state senate had their petitions challenged by the Obama campaign and at the hearing to determine the viability of those petitions it was determined that they were, in fact, illegal. Your point seems to be that Obama should have allowed four opponents to falsify their signature petitions and simply let them get away with it. Is that right?


by AHunch on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:05:45 PM EST


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